Please know that this is not about Iraq...it is about war.
My son-in-law, JR, posted a statement, well more than a statemen, on his blog, http://jarcaines.blogspot.com/, this week that really has caused me to revisit a difficult subject; Is war ever right? He had watched the movie "Gandhi" and it had prompted him to ask a few questions. Difficult ones I might add.
Following is my reply to his wondering about war, being a follower of Christ's teachings and our choosing violence over other alternatives. This is a REALLY BIG SUBJECT and it would take volumes and perhaps even a life time or two to really do the subject a fair hearing.
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If you do not stand up to the bully next door you end up loosing everything. Should we become like Chamberlin and appease the Hitler's of our time and risk loosing our nation in the process?
There is a distinct difference between how we, collectivly as a nation, and how we, as Christian brothers and sisters, should act and react. It takes a nation to stand up to the bully who imparts great injustice, even unto death, on his citizens.
Love is very powerful and the desire to avoid conflict is heightened all the more by Christ's love in us, and yet, love, even Christ's love, without backbone, isn't love at all. It all too quickly degenerates into cowardice.
Once lines are drawn in the sand, and that line is crossed, action is required to make the bully back off. I don't think that we can go very far before we must draw some lines in the sand whether it is a personal boundry or one with global multi-national implications.
Even Gandhi drew a line in the sand and when the time came and he had to act he chose a "war" of sorts. He did not choose to "war" with violence but he did choose to "go to war" non the less. He was incredibly successful in influencing change in India.
In the end it was the one thing he choose not to do the was his undoing, showing us just how confusing and difficult these decisions are.
No sane person likes or wants violence a part of their life, yet it all too often happens, even within our own families.
The conflict we are engaged in in Iraq is not a "War on Terror" as we hear daily, but a "War on Terrorist" (those who would commit indescriminate terror). These are people who find pleasure in beheading their foe and do not mind blowing themselves up o further their cause.
It is not a war against the Iraqi people but a war on those who would destroy the Iraqi people. This is a VERY BIG difference.
What outcome would you really expect to achieve by turning the other cheek?
JR, please know that I am not a proponent of war. However, there are times when it is necessary. Alas, all too often it seems to be implimented way too soon.
And as Brandon so aptly put it: "War Sucks."
5 comments:
Intriguing post, Dad. I love that we all discuss these big issues--it's awesome. Question: if we have an obligation to stand up to bullies, how do we explain Christ's action on the cross? Did he stand up to the bully? I would be inclined to say that he stood up in a nonviolent way that was even more powerful than violence could have been. Dare we hope that God can still truimph over bullies without using the tool of violence?
Mike, that is a lot to take in. I want to point out that I am just stating some of the things that have made me come to this conclusion, not that I think I am right and you are wrong, just some things I have thought about. For years I too thought there was a time and place for violence it is only recently that I started questioning some of the answers you pointed out in your post. Let me respond point to point and see if I can explain my reasons for come to the conclusion that violence is never the right thing.
You asked about standing up for ourselves vs. loosing everything. But when I see a Christ who laid down His life, not just died, but sacrificed His power as God, sacrificed everything for us I don't see an example of standing up for His own rights. As Christians I believe we are not just suppose to give up our "everything" but we are called to do so to truly live in Christ. I don't believe that a concern about loosing anything is reason to take anothers life.
You stated that there is a difference to how we as Christians should respond and we as a nation should respond. I have to question this point. Why? Is my role in this nation more important then my Christianity? The first thing I am is a Christian and if that doesn't inform every single other aspect of my life then am I really following Christ? I don't believe there should be a distinction between what I want from my government and what I feel Christ would want from me.
I take a little offense to your statement about love and backbone. I agree, love without backbone is nothing, but what form does backbone take? Christ again was a perfect example of Love with a backbone. It takes more backbone to stand up for what is right, to fight without violence for what you believe, to fight for what you believe without contradicting that belief then it does to wage a violent war with the largest military in to world, a budget more then twice the size of the next largest military. Playground psychology has proven those who bully are the biggest cowards, and bullying the bully is nothing more then sinking to their level.
Gandhi did draw a line, and he stood firm for what he believed, which to me shows more might then any army. But Gandhi never once resorted to violence. In my post you referenced I objected to a violent war, I did not object to non-violence. We are called to fight for those who cannot, but I don't believe Christ leaves us any room for violence.
As for the objective I wish to achieve through non-violence, nothing more then a life lived the why Christ has called me to live it. I believe that God is bigger then our nation, or any nation for that matter. Bigger than any of our wars. And if I am truly living in Him and in Christ's example then I don't need to worry about the outcome.
The only reasons for war that I have seen are to protect ourselves and our belongings, our rights and our freedom. The bible tells me that God will protect me if I trust Him to, maybe not in the way we would think, but if I do trust that He can work all things for His good, even if it doesn't look like it to me. As for our freedom, the bible tells us that true freedom can only be found through Him which tells me no matter where I live, no matter what rule I am under that I am free. And my rights, I have been called to lay aside in favor for those of my neighbor and my enemy.
I hope that you don't take this as me saying "what I believe is right" obviously God is still shaping all of us. I want to be open to learn and listen to your side of this. Thank you very much for your response. As Jenny said above, it is nice to have parents that we can discuss these things with. That is a rare thing I am finding from conversations with friends, especially those in the church. We love you very much and your opinion on this is completely valid and valuable to me. Thank you.
Wow, you guys make some strong arguments.
I truly do not believe that Christ would have us be completely non-violent in our stance against evil in the world.
Satan would like nothing more than for us to take that posture. He would win big and quickly if we didn't fight back.
Some time ago I was in Africa with a group of people from our church. Gary Bayer went on to a small village in the south of Sudan. His story is worthy of a complete blog.
Upon his arrival the missionary he was visiting told an incredible story.
A few weeks prior a band of raiders from a neighboring tribe were poised to attack the village where he was living. The missionary knew that they were out in the darkness - he could hear them - but he did not know what to do. He wanted desperatly to protect the villagers and his family.
Finally in desperation he got all the lanterns in the village and had his friends and family light them and place them all around their encampment. Then he told all the men to get their swords, knives and sticks.
Next, he and his friends, went out to stand before the raiders. With knees knocking and hearts pounding they stood against all that the darkness was hiding.
The attack never came!
Some time later he met one of the raiders and asked why, when they had such superior numbers, they did not attack that night. The raiders reply was, "we were afraid for our lives. Never had we seen so many warriors, so many warriors dressed in flaming bright white robes."
The missionary was completely dumb founded. He had not seen the many warriors but the enemy surly had.
God works in mysterious ways...but it took a very anxious missionary and many villagers scared unto death, who choose to stand up to the raiders, praying all the while, before God could or would do His mighty work.
I am truly enjoying these discussions. Blessings on you all.
This is my response on JR's blog, too.
I agree with you JR, no where is there a place post crucifixion that God commands us to kill people for any reason. Reconciling the OT with the NT is difficult. What do you keep and what was done away with in Christ’s death. For instance: isn’t tithing an OT directive? As well as keeping the Sabbath? I believe we have to use discernment through the Holy Spirit to decide.
You make a wonderful point in wanting to emulate Christ’s life and example. He did not defend himself when it came time to go to the cross and even stopped Peter! I’m not sure I know but here are a couple of things to think about.
1. Jesus used violence when he drove out the money changers and that was to defend others.
2. On the cross He used a weapon (his total surrender to death) that ultimately meant that Satan would be condemned to a lake of fire for eternity. He knew who his enemy was and choose to allow Rome and the Jews to kill him to accomplish his goal: annihilation of the enemy who has destroyed His creation, His people, His children. He defended His own. True He was non-violent in his treatment of the people but what was he in the spiritual realm? If He comes back as prophesied doesn’t He return as a conquering hero?
Thanks JR for sharing your thoughts. I really didn’t know how you came to your conclusions. I respect your reasons and reasoning. They challenge me to examine my own.
OH, PS
If you trust God to protect you and yours, as I do believe He does, why do you lock your doors? You see I struggle with this. If Michael’s home I don’t bother; if he is gone I lock up. Go figure. Guess I’m just human.
One thing I wonder about in this... Christ did not put up with certain things. The temple was sacred and when it was not treated as such, he threw the salesmen out. In his war against evil, he stood up for what was right and was successful in either persuading or stumping those in disagreement. But Christ's job on the cross was not to win a war against evil but to save us. His focus was not on deturing but on including. Just as those on the 9-11 flight that crashed in Pennsylvania had to weigh their deaths against the many more lives that would be lost without their actions, Christ had to weigh his life against what a war on evil would cost. Giving his one life saved ours and countless other's who believe in him.
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